<insert crazy ramblings here>

andrewducker's hosting another conversation on the nature of changing belief. Well trying to. I hijaked one thread to argue for Agnosticism again. I wasn't joking when I set my religion to "Evangelical Strong Agnostic" of facebook. (I am somewhat tongue in cheek now having set it to match an equivalent from one of paulcornell2's stories)

There's a couple of famous arguements for Atheism: {ETA not Agnostism}

Bertrand Russell uses the example of the celestial teapot. He argues that although it is impossible to know that the teapot does not exist, most people would not believe in it.

I often argue against strong atheism. For instance the argument that you can assert anything, even the existance a teapot orbiting the Sun too far away to see with a telescope. Or: "I am an agnostic only to the extent that I am agnostic about fairies at the bottom of the garden." Richard Dawkins

Both of those things, are things I'm happy to assign negligible probabilities of existence.

Gardens are seen all the time, and there is not the slightest evidence of fairies. While it may be argued that it's impossible to prove a negative (as I have done previously), I'm happy enough to say that the overwhelming lack of evidence is enough that on the balance of probability I don't beleive in fairies. cdave claps his hands.

The contents of solar space on the other hand is not so thoroughly known. However there's no reasonable way an implicitly human made teapot could placed into a solar orbit without more finance that I be prepared to believe would be spent in secret on such a daft project. {ETA} Therefore I believe that such a teapot does not exist, although I cannot prove it.

However as most gods are defined, there's not a similar argument that can be made. Their existence is beyond the realms human experience, so cannot logically be dismissed {ETA} as their existence would be beyond our experience.

"The Scout Association has been reported to the equality watchdog for allegedly discriminating against atheists by making them swear an oath to God."

Well it seems I was well ahead of times then.

I remember I was having doubts about Christianity when I joined Scouts, and asked if I had to swear an oath to "do my duty" to something I wasn't sure I believed in any more. They pointed out that the God mentioned is not explicitly the Christian God, so I could swear to what ever deity I wanted. When I said it was the whole God thing I had problems with, I was told that basically there is no alternative version, and if I wanted my woggle I'd have to swear the oath. So I did.

I don't think I would/could now.

I've missed the first day of Agnostica, "the only truly secular winter celebration". but I'm not too late to participate in the global Random Bag of fun. I missed last year, but I've participated in the previous two. It's great. Slightly geeky gifts for all!

Macroeconomic effects (such as recession, and recoveries) in a 1970's babysitter's co-op.
seen at major_clanger's moonbase.

Teach your geeklet to read with Cthulhu.
Illustrated by Erica Hhenderson

And finally a rather nifty recipe for Lemonade. I wonder if it works mulled?