Scouting for Gnostics

[cdave]

"The Scout Association has been reported to the equality watchdog for allegedly discriminating against atheists by making them swear an oath to God."

Well it seems I was well ahead of times then.

I remember I was having doubts about Christianity when I joined Scouts, and asked if I had to swear an oath to "do my duty" to something I wasn't sure I believed in any more. They pointed out that the God mentioned is not explicitly the Christian God, so I could swear to what ever deity I wanted. When I said it was the whole God thing I had problems with, I was told that basically there is no alternative version, and if I wanted my woggle I'd have to swear the oath. So I did.

I don't think I would/could now.

Comments

[sharikkamur.livejournal.com]

I had the same problem the last I went through the process as a cub scout leader. I did exactly the same as you did as a child, but tweaked it to 'Goddess' as a leader. Nowadays I couldn't swear that oath at all. I've no problem to doing my duty to the Queen, but the God bit is not acceptable.

[cdave]

I guess even the queen bit could be offensive to republicans, that's easily fixed by changing it to country (or at least community). The sort of person who wouldn't swear that wouldn't really be wanted as a scout.

[fjm.livejournal.com]

The sort of person who wouldn't swear that wouldn't really be wanted as a scout.

Quakers? or any one from any of the small Christian minorities who do not believe in taking oaths lightly.

The bible is actually dead against oaths.

We have the right to affirm in this country. That the Scouts haven't caught up yet is a bit off.

[cdave]

Quakers?
I guess we get onto the definition of duty then. I certainly didn't mean I'd go to war when I swore mine.

who do not believe in taking oaths lightly

Actually that's a really good point. It's not exacly the sort of thing that needs an oath. An affirmation should be enough.

[cdave]

The 4-H pledge looks quite nice.

[fjm.livejournal.com]

Goodness, the vitriol!

I have no idea if the following is still true, but when I was a kid, scouts and guides had regular marches to have their flags blessed in church. Which was why I was never in the brownies or guides.

[cdave]

I think the closest we got was the remembrance day parade. They weren't actually terribly evangelical.

[makyo.livejournal.com]

Goodness, the vitriol!
I'm both surprised and horrified to discover that it's actually worse than the BBC's What I Reckon feature.

I have no idea if the following is still true, but when I was a kid, scouts and guides had regular marches to have their flags blessed in church.

Indeed - my Cub pack (2nd Attenborough) had a church parade every month. Due to apathy and agnosticism, I think I only went once, though - which was the first time I could remember going to a proper church service. I remember looking out of the window one other Sunday morning to see a load of Scouts walking past with a flag, and my mum saying "Aren't you supposed to be out there with them?"

This probably highlights a fundamental flaw in requiring small children to swear allegiance to something they don't really understand or believe in. Although for me the thing which really killed it was the fact that the BBC moved Doctor Who to a Tuesday evening slot, which clashed with the Cub meetings.

[offensive-mango.livejournal.com]

Could you swear to do your duty to God i.e. Mind In Control i.e. self?

[cdave]

Doesn't fit with my belief's. I'm not actually an athiest.
I don't think that stands up. What proof is there that there is no God.
Given all the various definitions of God how could you prove its existance?
The whole thing is moot.
I won't swear to do my duty by a moot point.
I do beleive in responsability, and meaning it, and sticking to it if you make an oath.